OnScript

Crispin Fletcher-Louis - The Divine Heartset

Episode: In this episode, Chris Tilling interviews Crispin Fletcher-Louis about his new book, The Divine Heartset: Paul’s Philippians Christ Hymn, Metaphysical Affections, and Civic Virtues (Eugene, OR: Cascade Books, 2023). This work combines keen theological insight with rigorous scholarship to explore one of the most significant questions in Christian theology—the identity of Jesus Christ. Fletcher-Louis takes us on a remarkable journey through Paul’s Christ Hymn in Philippians 2:6–11, engaging with both Greco-Roman literature and Second Temple Jewish texts to craft an entirely new reading of this key text. The book is large, but surprisingly accessible—not to mention daring, filled with one original insight after another.

In our conversation, we delve into Crispin’s background, from his studies at Oxford during the heady days of E. P. Sanders, N. T. Wright, and Rowan Williams, to his teaching roles at Durham, King’s College London, and Nottingham, and his founding of Westminster Theological Centre. Now focused almost entirely on research and writing, Crispin is at the cutting edge of discussions relating to early Christology. We discuss why Philippians 2:6–11 became a thousand-page exploration, the wider textual frame of the letter, and Crispin’s navigation of Paul as a Jewish thinker within the broader Mediterranean world. Topics include Christ as a divine shape-shifter, the metaphysical implications of to einai isa theō, Paul’s innovative reworking of Greco-Roman concepts of divinity and virtue, and much more besides.

Crispin’s book has a dedicated website: www.divineheartset.com. There you can buy a digital copy, find reviews and additional resources, including links to videos in which Crispin summarises the book by chapter and section. 

Guest: Dr. Crispin Fletcher-Louis completed his doctoral work on angels in Luke and Acts and has taught at Durham, King’s College London, and Nottingham. As the founder of Westminster Theological Centre and a postgraduate supervisor at the University of Gloucestershire, Crispin has spent decades researching and writing early Christology, publishing numerous important books and essays.

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Shai Held - Judaism is About Love

Episode: Dru and Shai have a wide-ranging conversation about the use of Jewish sages in theology, gratuitous suffering, Jesus's interpretation of Torah, and more on love. Shai Held's work innovatively explores non-romanticized realities of love, including the practicalities and theologies of loving the stranger.

Guest: Rabbi Shai Held is a philosopher, theologian, and Bible scholar, and is President and Dean at the Hadar Institute.  He received the prestigious Covenant Award for Excellence in Jewish Education, and has been named multiple times by Newsweek as one of the fifty most influential rabbis in America and by the Jewish Daily Forward as one of the fifty most prominent Jews in the world. Rabbi Held is the author of Abraham Joshua Heschel: The Call of Transcendence (2013), The Heart of Torah, Vol. 1 and Vol. 2 (2017), and Judaism is About Love (2024) and he is the host of Hadar's newest podcast, Answers WithHeld. (from the Hadar Website).

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Matt Lynch and Dru Johnson - Misunderstanding Sacrifice

Episode: Matt and Dru go on a myth-busting spree of Josianic proportions. The topic? Sacrifice in the Old Testament/Hebrew Bible, and several ways that modern readers "butcher" the subject. Enjoy the host-only back-and-forth discussion of sacrifice, decoding Leviticus, ritual, Girard, law, and more!

Hosts: Matthew Lynch (Ph.D., Emory University) is Associate Professor of Old Testament at Regent College, and is a co-founder of OnScript. He’s the author of Portraying Violence in the Hebrew Bible (Cambridge, 2020), Monotheism and Institutions in the Book of Chronicles (Mohr Siebeck, 2014), First Isaiah and the Disappearance of the Gods (Penn State University Press/Eisenbrauns, 2021) and Flood and Fury: Old Testament Violence and the Shalom of God (IVP). Matt is particularly interested in helping students grasp the theological and literary contours of the Old Testament, wrestle through its ethical and historical challenges, and understand its ongoing significance. With Matt Bates, he’s the co-founder of OnScript.

Dru Johnson (Ph.D., University of St Andrews) is the Templeton Senior Research Fellow at Wycliffe Hall, University of Oxford, adjunct professor at Hope College, and the director of the Center for Hebraic Thought. His main area of research has focused on the philosophical and intellectual world of biblical literature. His recent books include What Hath Darwin to Do with Scripture? Comparing Conceptual Worlds of the Bible and Evolution (IVP Academic); Biblical Philosophy: A Hebraic Approach to the Old and New Testaments (Cambridge University Press); Human Rites: The Power of Rituals, Habits, andSacraments (Eerdmans); The Universal Story: Genesis 1–11 (Lexham); Epistemology and Biblical Theology: From the Pentateuch to Mark’s Gospel (Routledge); and Knowledge by Ritual: A Biblical Prolegomenon to Sacramental Theology (Eisenbrauns). More at his website: drujohnson.com. He is an editor for the Routledge Interdisciplinary Perspectives on Biblical Criticism monograph series, so you can also send him proposals for monographs!

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Image Attribution: By Illustrator of Henry Davenport Northrop's 'Treasures of the Bible', 1894 - http://www.lavistachurchofchrist.org/Pictures/Treasures%20of%20the%20Bible%20(Moses)/target20a.html, Public Domain, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=6611903

Jonny Rowlands - The Metaphysics of Historical Jesus Research

Episode: In this episode Chris Tilling interviews Jonny Rowlands about his new book, The Metaphysics of Historical Jesus Research. In many ways it builds on earlier discussions with Seth Heringer, Austine Stevenson, and others here on OnScript. We dive into his fascinating thesis and his take on some big questions in historical Jesus studies, challenging secular approaches that are often taken to shape the field. He argues that our worldview assumptions come first, shaping how we interpret history, and calls for a broader range of metaphysical perspectives in this kind of research. We get into Rowlands’s push for embracing faith-informed approaches and how that might change the way we think about Jesus’s life. He shares sharp insights on why objectivity in historiography is impossible and discusses how we could better assess historical events by considering different philosophical perspectives. Our conversation also touches on the various “quests” for the historical Jesus and the philosophies of history that shape the field. Overall, the episode invites listeners to rethink how theology, metaphysics and historical research connect and what that means for biblical scholarship today. Also, stay tuned to hear a song from our producer, Jason Stark (details below)!

Guest: Jonathan Rowlands is Graduate Tutor, Lecturer in Theology, and Lead Tutor for Assessment at St. Mellitus College. He is the author of The Metaphysics of Historical Jesus Research (London: Routledge, 2022) and his second monograph - Reading Holy Scripture: Rethinking Theological Interpretation of Christian Scripture – is forthcoming with T&T Clark. His research has appeared in Journal of Biblical Literature, Journal for the Study of the New Testament, Novum Testamentum, Journal for the Study of the Historical Jesus, Modern Theology, Scottish Journal of Theology, Journal of Theological Interpretation, and Journal of Pentecostal Theology. He has also written for more accessible publications such as Church Times, Premier Christianity, and Seen & Unseen, and is a contributor to BBC Radio 2’s Pause for Thought programme.

Song: "Travel Light" by Jason Stark. Enjoy Jason's new song on various platforms. Links available HERE.

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The New Testament in Color - Esau McCaulley and Amy Peeler

Episode: We are culturally embedded and socially embodied, and this impacts how we interpret Scripture. Esau McCaulley and Amy Peeler, who form part of the editorial team for The New Testament in Color: A Multiethnic Bible Commentary, answer questions about the book's origins, scope, and unique features. They also anticipate possible objections to the project and speak of its power to transform the church. Listen, and discover how our monochromatic readings can receive an exciting technicolor adjustment. Cohosted by Matt Bates.

The Book: Esau McCaulley (Editor), Janette H. Ok (Co-editor), Osvaldo Padilla (Co-editor), Amy L. B. Peeler (Co-editor), The New Testament in Color: A Multiethnic Bible Commentary (IVP Academic, 2024). In a first-of-its-kind volume, The New Testament in Color offers biblical commentary that is:

• Multiethnic
• Diverse
• Contextual
• Informative
• Reflective
• Prophetic
• Inspiring

“I wish someone had handed The New Testament in Color to me twenty-five years ago, and I hope many will read it now.” ―Nijay Gupta, bestselling author of Tell Her Story: How Women Led, Taught, and Ministered in the Early Church.

Historically, Bible commentaries have focused on the particular concerns of a limited segment of the church, all too often missing fresh questions and perspectives that are fruitful for biblical interpretation. Listening to scholars from diverse backgrounds and ethnicities offers us an opportunity to explore the Bible from a wider angle, a better vantage point.

The New Testament in Color is a one-volume commentary on the New Testament written by a multiethnic team of scholars holding orthodox Christian beliefs. Each scholar brings exegetical expertise coupled with a unique interpretive lens to illuminate the ways social location and biblical interpretation work together. Theologically orthodox and multiethnically contextual, The New Testament in Color fills a gap in biblical understanding for both the academy and the church. Who we are and where God placed us―it's all useful for better understanding his Word. (Publisher’s description).

Guests:

Rev. and Dr. Esau McCaulley is the Jonathan Blanchard Associate Professor of New Testament and Public Theology and a contributing opinion writer on religion for the NYT. He has previously been our guest on OnScript for his book, Reading While Black: African American Biblical Interpretation as an Exercise in Hope (IVP Academic). He also penned a memoir, How Far to the Promised Land (Convergent Books). Dr. McCaulley holds a Ph.D. in New Testament from the University of St. Andrews, 2017.

Rev. and Dr. Amy Peeler. Amy is the Kenneth T. Wessner Professor of New Testament at Wheaton, where she serves in the Graduate program. She holds a PhD from Princeton Theological Seminary. She has previously been our guest on OnScript for her book, Women and the Gender of God (Eerdmans). She also has a new commentary on Hebrews (Eerdmans) in the Commentaries for Christian Formation Series.

OnScript’s Review: The New Testament envisions the gathering of people from all tribes, tongues, and nations under the banner of King Jesus. The New Testament in Color provides a unique blend of theory and commentary from a multiethnic perspective. It exposes the guild's monochromatic biases, allowing us to reframe the New Testament in accordance with its multiculture aims. I'm eager to use it in the seminary classroom. — Matthew W. Bates, author of Why the Gospel?; professor of New Testament at Northern Seminary.

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Arthur Keefer - Ecclesiastes, Proverbs, and the Meaning of Life

Episode: In this episode, Dru Johnson explores Arthur Keefer's comparative work between wisdom and philosophical traditions. The Book of Proverbs and Virtue Ethics (Cambridge University Press) examines Proverbs alongside later Greek virtue development in moral philosophy, including recent iterations of virtue ethics. His most recent work—Ecclesiastes and the Meaning of Life in the Ancient World (CUP)—takes a similar tack by asking questions from contemporary and ancient "meaning of life" philosophies and seeing how Qohelet answers those quandaries (or doesn't).

Guest: (modified from Keefer's Academia.edu site) Dr. Arthur Keefer is Adjunct Research Fellow at the University of Notre Dame Australia and Honorary Research Associate at the University of Divinity (Trinity College, Melbourne) in the field of Hebrew Bible/Old Testament. He also serves as a Presbyterian Minister at The Scots' Church, Melbourne.

His research focuses on the interpretation of the HB/OT within its ancient Near Eastern context and in its relation to ancient and contemporary philosophy. He's the author of The Book of Proverbs and Virtue Ethics (Cambridge University Press, 2020), Ecclesiastes and the Meaning of Life in the Ancient World (Cambridge University Press, 2022), and Proverbs 1-9 as an Introduction to the Book of Proverbs (Bloomsbury, 2020). He co-edited The Cambridge Companion to Biblical Wisdom Literature  (Cambridge, 2022) and serves as Book Review Editor for the Journal of Theological Studies. He is currently producing long-term projects on OT ethics and the ethics of narrative.

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Michael Rhodes - Just Discipleship

Episode: Michael Rhodes joins Matt L and Dru to discuss the Bible's justice-oriented discipleship and its significance for the church today. We explore the importance of Deuteronomy for understanding biblical concepts of justice, including the triennial tithe, 7th year release of debts and slaves, and formative feasting. Discussion also takes us into places like the books of Leviticus, Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Qoheleth, and the Gospel of John. And, of course, we get a first-hand report from an American in New Zealand. Listen in and pick up a copy of Just Discipleship (IVP Academic).

Guest: Dr. Michael Rhodes is Lecturer in Old Testament at Carey Baptist College in New Zealand. He's the author of Formative Feasting (Peter Lang), Practicing the King's Economy (Baker; co-authored with Robby Holt),  and the book we're discussing today, Just Discipleship: Biblical Justice in an Unjust World (IVP Academic). He also co-edited a book called Reparations and the Theological Disciplines (Lexington) and has another book called Justice Unto Victory under contract with IVP. For more on Michael's writing and interests, see his faculty page.

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Ann Jervis - Paul and Time

Episode: How did Paul understand time? Was it an adaptation of the "two ages" of Judaism? Is there really an "already-not-yet" in Paul's letters? To the last two questions, Ann Jervis answers an emphatic "no." Join Erin and Ann Jervis for a conversation about Ann's groundbreaking book, Paul and Time,  to hear Ann's unique take on how Christ relates to time in Paul's letters, and how those in Christ thus relate to time. by virtue of being joined together with him.

Guest (from the publisher's website): L. Ann Jervis (ThD, Wycliffe College) is emerita professor of New Testament at Wycliffe College, University of Toronto, in Toronto, Canada. She is a member of the Centre for Ethics at Trinity College, University of Toronto, and a member of the Center of Theological Inquiry in Princeton, New Jersey. She has served on various editorial boards, including Journal of Biblical Literature and New Testament Studies. Jervis is author of The Heart of the Gospel, The Purpose of Romans, a commentary on Galatians, and Paul and Time (Baker Academic). She is also a priest in the Anglican Church of Canada.

Book (from the Baker Academic website): Standard interpretations are that Paul modified his inherited Jewish apocalyptic sequential two-age temporality. Paul solved the conundrum of Christ’s resurrection occurring without the resurrection of the righteous by asserting that the ages are not sequential but rather that they overlap. Believers live in already-not yet temporality.

In this groundbreaking book, Ann Jervis instead proposes that Paul thought not in terms of two ages but in terms of life in this age or life in Christ. Humans apart from Christ live in this age, whereas believers live entirely in the temporality of Christ.

Christ’s temporality, like God’s, is time in which change occurs, at least between Christ and God and creation. Their temporality is tensed, but the tenses are nonsequential. The past is in their present, as is the future. However, this is not a changeless now but a now in which change occurs (though not in the way that human chronological time perceives change). Those joined to Christ live Christ’s temporality while also living chronological time.

In clear writing, Jervis engages both philosophical and traditional biblical understandings of time. Her inquiry is motivated and informed by the long-standing recognition of the centrality of union with Christ for Paul. Jervis points out that union with Christ has significant temporal implications.

Living Christ’s time transforms believers’ suffering, sinning, and physical dying. While in the present evil age these are instruments purposed for destruction, in Christ they are transformed in service of God’s life. Living Christ’s time also changes the significance of the eschaton. It is less important to those in Christ than it is for creation, for those joined to the One over whom death has no dominion are already released from bondage to corruption.

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Marty Folsom - Barth's Church Dogmatics for Everyone (vol. 2) - Doctrine of God

Episode: In this episode Chris Tilling interviews Marty Folsom about his second volume in the series, Karl Barth’s Church Dogmatics for Everyone (Vol. 2 - The Doctrine of God) (Zondervan Academic).

What is it about Barth’s Church Dogmatics that is considered so important? What’s the “big deal”? And how to approach such a massive set of volumes? How to navigate around the highways and byways of this text that sprawls almost 8,500 pages and 6,000,000 words? How to avoid misunderstanding? Marty Folsom has begun penning a “Church Dogmatics for Everyone”, which sets out, first in broad brush strokes and then in more detail, the first volume of Barth’s important project. Chris Tilling talks with the author about the background of this project, what Marty Folsom hopes to achieve and why the Church Dogmatics.

Guest: Marty Folsom has been Professor of Theology and Biblical Studies for 30 years in New Zealand and Seattle. He is most famous for his “Face to Face” trilogy on relational theology, which emphasises “personal relationship”. Apart from authoring numerous articles, he has also been a therapist for 24 years. Today we discuss his new book, Karl Barth’s Church Dogmatics for Everyone (Vol. 2 - The Doctrine of God) (Zondervan Academic), with contributions from Chris Tilling, David Guretzki, Earl Palmer, Wyatt Houtz, Andrew Howie, James Houston, Ross Hastings, and Jeremy Begbie. This is the second volume of six.

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If you enjoyed this episode ... have a listen to our interview with Marty about Volume 1. 

Jodi Magness - Jerusalem Through the Ages

Episode: New Biblical World co-host Jason Staples speaks with Jodi Magness, Kenan Distinguished Professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill about her new book, Jerusalem Through the Ages: From Its Beginnings to the Crusades (Oxford University Press, 2024), the spectacular synagogue mosaic her team discovered at Huqoq, why specializing in pottery is an advantage for archaeologists, and lots more. This episode is cross-listed from our Biblical World podcast.

Guest: Dr. Jodi Magness is Kenan Distinguished Professor for Teaching Excellence in Early Judaism at The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Magness’ research interests, which focus on Palestine in the Roman, Byzantine, and early Islamic periods, and Diaspora Judaism in the Roman world, include ancient pottery, ancient synagogues, Jerusalem, Qumran and the Dead Sea Scrolls, and the Roman army in the East. Her most recent books are Jerusalem Through the Ages: From Its Beginnings to the Crusades (New York: Oxford University, March 2024); and Ancient Synagogues in Palestine: A Reevaluation Nearly a Century After Sukenik’s Schweich Lectures. The Schweich Lectures of the British Academy 2022 (London: The British Academy/Oxford University Press, June 2024). Three of Magness’ books have won awards: Masada: From Jewish Revolt to Modern Myth (Princeton: Princeton University, 2019) was selected as a finalist for the 2019 National Jewish Book Award in the category of History, the Gerrard and Ella Berman Memorial Award; The Archaeology of Qumran and the Dead Sea Scrolls (Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 2002; revised edition 2021) won the 2003 Biblical Archaeology Society’s Award for Best Popular Book in Archaeology in 2001-2002 and was selected as an “Outstanding Academic Book for 2003” by Choice Magazine; and The Archaeology of the Early Islamic Settlement in Palestine (Winona Lake, IN: Eisenbrauns, 2003) was awarded the 2006 Irene Levi-Sala Book Prize in the category of non-fiction on the archaeology of Israel. Her other books include The 2003-2007 Excavations in the Late Roman Fort at Yotvata (co-authored with G. Davies) (Winona Lake, IN: Eisenbrauns, 2015); The Archaeology of the Holy Land from the Destruction of Solomon’s Temple to the Muslim Conquest (New York: Cambridge University, 2012); and Stone and Dung, Oil and Spit: Jewish Daily Life in the Time of Jesus (Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 2011). In addition, Magness has published dozens of articles in journals and edited volumes. (from the UNC website)

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